半生

15歲甫接觸攀岩便技驚四座，現今邁入而立之年的Chris Sharma接受Climbing雜誌的專訪，回顧他的攀岩生涯並放眼展望未來，究竟Sharma還能帶給世人多少的驚嘆呢？

原文網址：http://www.climbing.com/exclusive/features/half_life/
（未經本人同意 ，請勿以任何形式張貼、轉載本文內容）

Half Life

By Jeff Achey / Photos by Boone Speed

Sharma has delivered everything that “the next generation” is supposed to in rock climbing. He has been setting new standards for 15 years—half his life. And now, on April 23, he turns 30.

在攀岩領域，Sharma已經傳遞了下一個世代所需要的所有條件。邁入而立之年的他，過去十五年來（他人生的一半），不斷設立新的標竿。

You could define an old-school climber as one who remembers a time “before Sharma.”
From his boy-wonder teenage days to his meditative 20s, Chris Sharma has captured our imaginations, inspiring us not only with his routes— Necessary Evil, The Mandala, Realization, Witness the Fitness, Dreamcatcher, Es Pontas, Jumbo Love—but also with his humility. Sharma was so soft-spoken, so mellow, that when he showed up at a national championship or the X Games, he seemed almost out of place. And when he’d win, it was as if the victory belonged to climbing itself, a triumph over the competitive and narcissistic hang-ups tainting our art-slash-sport. Besides, his free-swinging style was great to watch.

你可以將Sharma世代先前的攀岩者定義為老派。從他鋒芒畢露的少年時代開始，直到他渐趨沉穩的二十歲之後的時段，Chris Sharma展現了所有我們想像的可能，不只用他開發的 Necessary Evil, The Mandala, Realization, Witness the Fitness, Dreamcatcher, Es Pontas, Jumbo Love…等路線，同時也用他虛懷若谷的態度來激勵我們。Sharma說話輕聲細語、成熟穩重，當他在國際冠軍賽或是X Game比賽等場合現身時，他看起來跟這些場合格格不入。當他贏得獎牌時，彷彿勝利的勳章是頒給攀岩活動本身，戰勝了充滿較勁意味或自我膨脹風格的障礙，打破了藝術與運動的界線。除此之外，他自由搖擺的攀岩風格看了讓人大呼過癮。

We caught up with Sharma in October, outside a bagel shop in Boulder, Colorado, where he had come to do a benefit slide show. In a three-hour interview, it became very clear that he’s still just as psyched as when he was a scrawny 15-year-old, campusing to the top of the climbing world. He firmly believes his hardest climbs are still to come. But now he has a house, a girlfriend of three years, and a dog. His soul patch has grayed a bit, and he has wisdom to share about climbing that all of us can relate to. Which shouldn’t be surprising. An athletic gift is given by nature, but for the gift to keep on giving, your guiding philosophy must stand the test of time. Sharma’s has.

我們在十月時與Sharma在科羅拉多州Boulder市的一家貝果店外進行了訪談，而他當時正準備出席一場公益演說。在三小時的訪談過程中，很明顯的他仍然保持著自他精瘦的十五歲年少以來的心理沉穩，奮力往攀岩世界的頂端爬去。他堅決相信他尚未遇到攀岩生涯中的最大難關。但他現在有間房子、交往三年的女友以及一條狗，他的靈魂樣貌更加成熟，並且有讓所有人都能理解、分享攀岩的圓融智慧。這一點都不讓人訝異，運動家才能是天生的，但能夠不斷的給予、分享的特質，這樣的領導者風範必須歷經時間的挑戰，而Sharma就具有這樣的特質。

You have this public image as the “spiritual climber.” Is that an accurate description?

I feel like I have been portrayed like that. People, interviewers, whatever, they try to put you in a box, you know? Not that it’s not true, but at the same time I feel like that’s not telling the whole story. I think it’s really just trying to be true to yourself and as authentic as possible. Not trying to strategically create some image.

（問）：你給人「性靈攀岩者」的普遍印象，你覺得這樣的稱呼合適嗎？

（答）：我覺得我就是給人這樣的印象。無論大眾或訪談我的人，都試著把我套入某種框架。我不是說這樣的稱謂不切實際，但同時我也覺得這樣的稱謂有所遺漏。我覺得，就是盡其可能的忠於自己並展現我的本性，而非策略性的營造出某種形象。

So, as a professional climber, how do you keep it real?

I think for me, whenever I’ve gone climbing, it’s because I really wanted to go climbing, not because I wanted to try to outdo someone or prove something to the world. There is this side of my climbing that’s professional—it’s like my job. But I feel like I’ve found a good way of separating those things. If I go to a trade show, or a competition, or a slideshow, that’s when I’m on the clock, being a professional climber.

（問）：身為職業攀岩者，你如何保持坦率心境？

（答）：就我個人而言，我攀岩是因為我真的想攀岩，而不是我想贏過某人或向這世界證明什麼。以一個職業攀岩者來說，這就是我的工作。但我已經找到能將事理梳理清楚的方法。如果我參加商業活動、比賽或是照片分享聚會，那就是我回到工作崗位的時刻。

Don’t you feel like on some climbs, though, that you’re trying to just get the job done? Does that still happen to you?

Oh, yeah. It totally happens. It’s a constant process. It’s like relearning the same things over and over again—kind of like every route. It’s hard to have that pure attitude. You know, you wanna send it, but that’s almost inhibiting you from just being yourself and climbing it like you know you can. When I climbed Realization, I was kind of feeling tired that day, and was like, well, whatever, I’ll give it a burn, just to remember the moves. And then you kind of trick yourself into not really caring about it, and then you’re free to just do it, I guess.

I feel like that goes for competitions, too. More often than not, when I’m successful in competitions, I’m pretty pessimistic going into the whole thing. Everyone always says you have to have a lot of belief in yourself, and I think it’s true, but for me, it’s more about taking the pressure off. If I’m already set that I’m not going to win, then I just let go and have fun, and I’m able to really climb well because I’m not worried about winning anymore. I haven’t found a formula for that except for trying to trick myself, you know? Basically trick myself and talk to myself in that way.

（問）：你難道不會有時覺得你只是在設法完成工作？你曾經有這樣的感覺嗎？

（答）：當然有，一直都是如此。這像是週而復始地再學習同樣一件事物，幾乎每條路線都有帶給我相似的感覺，很難保持像我先前提到的那種簡單的態度。你知道的，你設法完成這路線，但這立基於忠於自己的態度以及對自身能力的瞭解。當我在攀爬”Realization”的時候，我已經快累癱了，但我還是用盡權力，至少記住所有動作。接著就像是矇騙自己不要對這路線得失心太重，我想，這就足以讓人放手一搏。

我對參加比賽也有同樣想法。當我在比賽中得取勝利時，我常常覺得對整個過程感到不開心。所有人都說：「你要對自己有信心」，我想這的確中肯，但對我而言，如何卸除比賽壓力才是重點。如我我早先認定我不會贏，那我就會用盡全力比賽並享受其中的樂趣，如此以來我才能爬的好，因為我再也不心繫勝負。除了試著欺騙自己以外，我還找不到合適的方法，我總是先矇騙我自己，然後再跟我自己這樣說。

When you come to a competition, everybody expects you to win. It’s got to be hard—it’s a lose-lose situation in a way.

Yeah, I definitely have mixed feelings about competitions, because more often than not, I don’t prepare for them. But I try to have the mindset that I just go to participate in the climbing community and share my climbing or share myself with other people.

Personally, that’s not ever really been my deal. I mean, competitions are fun, but 15 minutes after the competition they take the holds off. It’s way more important for me to put up new routes and develop my vision in rock climbing. Create a legacy, create something lasting. No one remembers who won the freakin’ World Cup in 1997, but people know who put up Action Directe.

（問）：當你現身比賽場合，所有觀眾都希望你獲勝。這對你而言一定很不容易，這像是個雙輸的局面。

（答）：沒錯，我的確對比賽有著複雜感覺，因為我通常不特別為比賽做準備。但我試著抱持參加攀岩圈活動以及與其他人分享我的攀岩或我自己的心態而出席。

Talk a little bit about your upbringing. Didn’t you grow up in an ashram?

My parents were both students of Baba Hari Dass. When they got married, they took the name Sharma. It means “good fortune,” or something like that. It’s actually a pretty common last name in India. I went to school at the Mount Madonna Center, in the Santa Cruz Mountains. I lived in Santa Cruz, and we would go up to the school every day, but we didn’t live on the center.

（問）：談談你的成長背景吧，你在印度教的環境成長對吧？

（答）：我的雙親都是Baba Hari Dass的門徒。他們結婚時取了Sharma這個姓，意味著「好運」（之類的意思），在印度這是非常普遍的姓氏。我在Santa Cruz Mountains的Mount Madonna Center就學，我們住在那兒，我父母每天陪我去上學，但我們不住在市中心。

Did this background affect your early climbing?

For me, it never was just blindly like, OK, I’m a climber, I’m just gonna climb. I definitely relate that to my background and to my friends, Andy [Puhvel] and Sterling [Keene] and other close friends from Santa Cruz. It wasn’t like we were in a climbing scene. Being a famous climber was never really something that I tried to make happen.

（問）：這樣的背景對你早期的攀登有影響嗎？

（答）：對我而言，攀岩不只是：「喔，好吧，我是個攀岩者，我就是想攀岩」。這絕對跟我的成長背景以及我的朋友（Andy Puhvel跟Sterling Keene）還有其他在Santa Cruz的朋友有連結。我不是生下來就註定要攀岩，成為出名的攀岩者從來不是我的努力目標。

What set you on that path?

I won the national championship when I was 14. I had amazing opportunities like that. But when I was 17, I had a really bad knee injury. That was a pretty powerful experience for me because all of a sudden, I couldn’t climb. And I’d kind of put all my eggs in that basket. I’d gotten my GED through an alternative high school that basically just accepted my life experience as my schooling. When I was 16, I was hitchhiking around France with Tommy Caldwell, climbing, and that really has been my education. Traveling and meeting people and just life experiences. I guess I didn’t learn so much math.

（問）：什麼原因引領你走上這條路？

（答）：我十四歲時贏得全國冠軍，那時我擁有許多的可能性。但在十七歲時我的膝蓋受了重傷，這對我影響深遠，因為突然之間我完全無法攀岩。我選擇了風險很高的方向，從一所承認我自身經歷作為學習成績的綜合高中取的了同等學歷證明。當我十六歲時，我已經跟Tommy Caldwell在法國一路搭便車並且攀岩，這就是我受的教育：旅行、認識人群以及生活經驗。我想我數學應該很差。

A lot of us who sat through school can say the same thing.

Yeah, but I did really commit to climbing—that was all I wanted to do. And not too long after that, I blew out my knee, and I couldn’t climb for a year. That was a really rough moment for me. It was really depressing.

（問）：很多一路升學的人也說同樣的話。

（答）：是沒錯，但差別在於我全心全意投入攀岩，攀岩是我的志業。在那不久以後，我就操壞了我的膝蓋，有長達一年的時間無法攀岩。對我來說那是非常煎熬、令人沮喪的日子。

What was your comeback after all that?

I was probably 18 or 19, and at the trade show I met Christian Griffith. I’d already gone once to try that route Realization, and he encouraged me to go try it again. He told me that it’s something I’ll look back and be psyched on. At that point, I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do, whether I wanted to maybe go back to school. I felt like I had a really good run, I did a lot of stuff I wanted to do, but I thought, before I do something else, this is definitely one thing that I have cliffhanging, you know, this Realization.

Between trips there I spent a lot time in Asia. In Japan, I went on this crazy trip, walked about 1,000 miles around this island [Shikoku, a 1,500-year-old Buddhist pilgrimage], totally by myself, just sleeping in the forest in Japan. I went to meditation centers in Thailand and Burma and India. That was a big part of my life for a while. And climbing, as a comparison, was just so external. I worked on Realization, and that was kind of the exception. I was really miserable when I hurt my knee, and it made me realize that climbing is pretty ephemeral.

So... I got back, I got a girlfriend, and I went to Majorca and totally fell in love with deep water soloing. Perfect rock over the ocean, and climbing onsight, ground up. Just super pure.

（問）：那麼之後復出的過程呢？

（答）：18、19歲時我在宣傳活動上遇見Christian Griffith。雖然我先前已經試過Realization這條路線，他還是鼓勵我再試一次。他認為這將是我日後會不斷回想並是視之為里程碑的轉捩點。當時我仍沒有明確目標，也想著要重返校園。在攀岩路上我也走了一段距離，而且完成了很多設定的目標，但我認為在轉換跑道前，Realization這路線絕對是我心中日思夜想的目標。

在前往法國的旅程空檔，我花了好些時間在亞洲。我在日本進行了些瘋狂的旅行，像是獨自徒步1,000哩環繞四國島（這是趟有1,500年歷史的佛教朝聖之旅）。我也去了在泰國、緬甸、印度等地的冥想中心，這佔據了我當時大部分的行程。相較之下，攀岩在當時只是種外在的身體活動。在Realization所下的功夫只能算是種例外活動，膝蓋受傷的確是段落魄失意的經驗，但也讓我了解到攀岩是有如曇花一現的活動。

總之我回來了。交了女友、去了Majorca而且深深愛上深水自由攀登。從海面升起的完美岩石加上從零開始的onsight攀登，這是種純粹的攀登形式。

Did you have any sponsorship issues around your knee injury?

I’ve been really lucky in that way. Beaver [Theodosakis] from prAna has known me since I was a little kid, and he’s always had a lot of faith in me and respected my need to grow as a person. I feel really grateful for that, and in the end I think it actually enhanced my image for them. That I’ve just been able to be myself and have my image not be that of a typical athlete.

I guess I got lucky that I wasn’t ever playing that game. I wasn’t grading my climbs. I was able to climb how I wanted to climb, and I was really fortunate to meet people like Josh and Brett Lowell and shoot videos with them.

（問）：你在膝蓋問題方面有沒有跟贊助商起衝突？

（答）：還好我夠幸運，paAna的Beaver Theodosakis跟我認識很久，他總是對我抱持信心並尊重我的意願。我對此充滿感激，而最終這也加強了我給他們的形象，這讓我能夠忠於自己的風格，並且不僅成為一個樣板運動員。

我想我十分幸運因為我從未被遊戲（商業）規則牽著鼻子走。我不評斷攀登路線的級數，我可以用我設想的方式進行攀登，而且也很幸運能愈到像Josh跟Brett Lowell這樣的人幫我進行拍攝工作。

So about your label as a spiritual climber...

What I don’t like about the idea of being a “spiritual person,” is it’s like, OK, I’m a spiritual person, so I’m going to act all peaceful and try to be all saintly or something. But if you’re feeling pissed off in the moment, it’s much more true to be pissed off than try to act all peaceful.

I’ve been living in Spain for a long time now, and people are very expressive there, very fiery, but very authentic. It’s like you have to express yourself, even if that’s frustration or something. From what I’ve studied in Buddhism, that’s the goal, right? To not be caught up in your own personal image, but actually be authentic, whatever expression that takes.

（問）：那麼關於你「性靈攀岩者」的稱號…

（答）：之所以不喜歡被稱作注重心靈層次的人，是因為這聽起來像是：「喔好吧，我是個注重性靈修行的人，所以我得表現的心平氣和或是看起來像是個聖人」之類的。但事實上如果你覺得不爽，那覺得不爽倒要比表現心平氣和來的真誠許多。

我在西班牙住了有段時間，在那邊的人們總是直接表達情感，非常直接但也非常真誠。即使遭遇挫折或是其他的感覺，都必須要實在地表達出來。這跟我從佛經中讀到的修行目的一樣，對吧？不要被自身形體所拘束，無論是用何種方式，都要實在地傳達。

So my sound bite can be, “At age 30, Chris Sharma is outgrowing the stereotype of the spiritual climber”?

To be stereotyped like that definitely detracts from me personally. Like I said, I’m totally happy talking about this stuff. I just don’t want to make some image for myself like I’m some sort of saint or something. I get frustrated, and I get bummed out.

（問）：所以我可以下筆寫：「Chris Sharma在他三十歲時擺脫了『性靈攀岩者』的刻板印象」？

（答）：這種刻板印象的確跟我的本性相差甚遠。先前說過，我樂於談論這方面的事，我只是不希望建立我是聖人或是什麼了不起人物的形象。我也會覺得挫折、覺得失落。

Do you kick and scream on climbs?

Eh, not so much, but once in a while. It can be frustrating as hell to fall off 50 times at the last move, you know? And to act like it’s OK, it’s all good—that’s kind of like bullshit. [Laughs.] I feel like I’ve learned a lot from Daila [Ojeda]. She’s very much true to her emotions and, like, a typical fiery Latin woman, you know? But very true to her feelings.

（問）：你會對攀岩感到不耐煩嗎？

（答）：嗯…並不常，但偶爾有這種感覺。在最後一個動作失敗五十次之後，可能會覺得無比沮喪。如果要裝做「這沒關係」、「一切都很好」，這根本就是話唬爛。我覺得我從Daila（Sharma女友）身上學到很多。她個性真誠，就像典型的火爆拉丁女人一樣，你懂的，但她對情感毫不矯飾。

Is it serious with Daila?

Yeah, we’ve been together for three years or something.

（問）：你跟Daila是認真交往嗎？

（答）：是的，我們在一起差不多三年了。

Thinking about getting married?

We’ll see… I’m not ruling that out, that’s for sure.

（問）：想過結婚的可能嗎？

（答）：在看看吧，可以確定的是我不排除結婚的可能。

Like to have kids some day? Do you think about that?

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think so. But, uh, first things first. We’ve got a dog now. A black lab, Chaxi. That’s a good start.

（問）：想過養兒育女的問題嗎？

（答）：當然，一定的。但是…慢慢來，我們現在養了一支黑色拉不拉多，他叫Chaxi，這是個好的開始。

Talk a little bit about Catalunya and the house there you two have been fixing up. How does it feel to have a real home base?

It’s pretty much the first time I’ve ever had that in my life. Since I was three years old, I was going week on, week off, at my mom and my dad’s houses. And I’ve basically been on the road for 10 years, not really knowing where to call home. I’d been spending a lot of time in Spain, and Daila and I just said, where are we going to live? And we decided to live in Lleida. Now I’ve got a place where people come and visit me, and we’ve ended up creating a community where we are.

（問）：談談有關於加泰隆尼亞以及你們在那裡剛整修完的房子。真正擁有個家的感覺如何？

（答）：我人生中首次有那樣的感覺。自從三歲開始，我每週在我父母的房子間來回遷徙。而且我基本上已經四處漫遊了十年之久，實在不知道哪裡可以稱作我的家。我在西班牙度過許多時日，我跟Daila也思考著要在哪裡落腳，最後決定住在Lleida。現在我有地方可以讓人們來拜訪我，而且我們在那裡也建立起交誼圈。

Describe the landscape where you live.

There’s a lot of agriculture, orchards, and stuff like that. Olive trees and almond trees and peach trees. We live in a little village of about a hundred people. It’s almost like if you’re coming to the Valley [Yosemite] through Mariposa or something like that. Similar kind of climate, maybe 2,000-foot elevation, and the closest crag is a 10-minute walk.

Trundling boulders during the equipping of Era Bella. The meat of this new 5.14d (FA 2010) is the immaculate bulging wall above, which was cleaned entirely with a toothbrush.

（問）：描述你住的環境？

（答）：那裡以農業為主，種著蘭花以及其他作物，也產橄欖、杏仁跟桃子。我們住在約有百人的聚落，感覺就像在去優勝美地會經過的Mariposa村莊一樣，相似的氣候，海拔大約兩千多呎，最近的岩壁只距離十分鐘的步行路程。

我也搭車去抱石，Erz Bella（2010年首攀）這條路線的經典之處在於上頭有個完美的隆起岩壁，岩壁也已經清理完畢。

What’s a typical week at home?

Well, it depends. When it’s climbing season, we’re basically like, “No more home projects.” We’re climbing five days a week, always going to the crag, driving a lot. In the wintertime, it gets dark pretty early, so even if it’s an hour and a half drive back home, it’s OK.

（問）：平日的家居生活都是怎樣呢？

（答）：這要看情況。攀岩季時幾乎連家都不太回，週間天天都在攀岩，流連在岩壁上，開著車四處逛。冬季天色暗得快，即使只爬一會就回家也是可接受的。

Any really exceptional projects in the works?

I’ve got two projects in mind right now that are in Margalef. One is First Round, First Minute, and another is one that I bolted last fall [Perfecto Mondo—see pages 46–47]. So, just trying to focus, you know, on a couple things right now, not get too spread out.

（問）：現在手邊有沒有什麼特別的計畫？

（答）：我心裡籌劃著兩條在Margalef的路線：”First Round, First Minute”跟去年秋天剛定好的” Perfecto Mondo”。我試著只專注在少許幾樣事物上，避免分心。

How many projects do you have that you’ve bolted but haven’t sent?

Probably 10.

（問）：有幾條路線是已經定好，但是沒有完成？

（答）：大約十條。

Have you given up on some of those? Left them for the next generation?

There’s one in Oleana that I have kind of given up on, but I did all the moves. Each individual move is really, really hard, and I think it’d be no doubt 15c or d—really gnarly. But it also has really small holds, and that’s not really my strong point.

In the past, I would always just focus all my energy on one route. Like OK, I’m going to go to Clark Mountain and just camp out in the desert and stay till I do it. And that was a cool experience, but it’s really hard to have an everyday life, and you always have these time constraints. Being in Spain, I have these projects, these amazing futuristic lines that I’m working on, but I’m able to mix that with everyday life and develop a little bit of a home base.

（問）：你放棄其中幾條了嗎？也許將它們留給下個攀岩世代？

（答）：有條在Oleana的路線讓我幾乎放棄了，但我完成了所有的動作。每步單獨動作都相當困難，我想這條線會毫無疑問到達5.15c甚至5.15d的程度，十分刁鑽。這路線也有著極小的手點，而這不是我擅長的。

And that’s a first for you.

I’m ready to settle down a little bit, you know? I can be at my house and not be sleeping on the floor of someone’s house or camping out in some random foreign place that I have no connection to whatsoever. So it feels a little more holistic. And I feel like I can work on harder routes because I don’t have to plan out my time so much.

（問）：那你目前的首要目標是？

（答）：我準備要定下來了。我可以睡在我的家中，而非某人家的地板或是在與我沒有關連的陌生國度裡搭帳棚過夜。我的人生似乎更加完整，而且我覺得我可以著手更難的路線，因為我無需花太多時間計畫我的行程。

Do you think your current projects will be your hardest yet?

Yeah, for sure. Some of the stuff I’m working on will be harder than anything I’ve ever done. But everything kind of loses its significance there, in a way, because there’s so much hard climbing that one route doesn’t really stand out from the next.

I feel like, as soon as you do one new level, other people are like, “So when are you going to do the next hardest thing?” That’s not really how it works. It took me, like, seven years to go from 15a to 15b. It’s not like, oh, so I did some 15b— when’s the 15c gonna come? It’s not as simple as that. And it shouldn’t be. Every time the scale goes up, it seems like it should be a significant difference.

And I’m super-stoked on a lot of different kinds of routes. It’s cool to do a long route like Jumbo Love, and it’s also really cool to do a short bouldering route.

（問）：你認為目前在你手上的計畫是你的最終挑戰嗎？

（答）：毫無疑問的，手邊這計畫有些部分遠超越我曾經完成的目標。但評定標準總是在某方面失準，因為有太多的困難路線，而其彼此間總有其優缺點。

當你達到另一層境界，有些人會想「那你什麼時候要開始下一個困難的計畫？」。但實際上並不是這樣的。跨越15a到15b花了我約莫7年時間，這並不是「喔，我爬了幾條15b的路線，下來就爬些15c的路線吧」如此簡單，而且也不會這樣簡單。每當（難度）級數往上提昇，那都意義深遠。

我大量攀爬不同類型的路線。爬像Jumbo Love這樣的長路線很好，但爬爬短距離的抱石路線也相當棒。

Are some of these projects shorter?

Like 40 feet. I’ve always loved bouldering. Where we live, there’s not that much bouldering, but some of these shorter routes maybe have V14 boulder problems in them. It’s really cool to get in that zone where you’re just like—[sound effect]—really going for it hard in that bouldering style.

I’m just kind of mixing it up, always trying to reinvent something, I guess. Taking bouldering and route climbing and kind of fusing those styles together. I think that helps me stay psyched.

（問）：有哪些路線較短嗎？

（答）：距離大約40呎，我一直都很喜歡抱石。我們住所附近沒有多的抱石場地，但有些較短的路線甚至有V14的抱石問題。我喜歡在抱石活動中往更難的部份探索，這真的很酷。

我猜我有點把這些元素混著搭配，總是試著重新發掘些東西，調和抱石、長路線攀登型態，我想這是我能夠保持在狀況內的原因。

Speaking of mixing it up, you’ve ventured out a little into other disciplines, like doing Moonlight Buttress and The Rostrum. There was a rumor that you once showed up in Yosemite Valley with the idea of trying to onsight the Nose. Is that true?

[Laughs.] Well, my buddy and me were gonna try it. And on any route I try, if it’s my first time on it, I try to flash it, you know? That’s what I always try. We went up the first seven pitches, and I fell on, like, a 12c move…

（問）：談到混合其他元素，你曾嘗試其他型態的攀登，像是Moonlight Butress跟The Rostrum。有人說你曾現身優勝美地並試著第一次嘗試就爬上Nose，是真的嗎？

（答）：（笑）嗯，我跟我的朋友嘗試過。無論在哪條路線上，只要是我第一次爬的路線，我都試著一次爬完它，我總是這樣設想。我們往上爬了七個繩距，接著我在難度大約12c的部份墜落。

Seven pitches up—those traverses into the Stoveleg Cracks?

Yeah, right there. So that’s something I would love to go back on. I don’t know if we really did it so strategically—like we were hauling and stuff, and ended up fixing line to go back to the ground. And the next day we woke up and were just both so tired. We were like, uh, I think we’re just gonna go bouldering. I would love to do more high-off-the-ground stuff like that. Bring what I’ve done in sport climbing and apply that to longer routes. I’d love to find some rad, overhanging 600- to 1,000- foot wall and find a 5.15 on it. But I feel like there’s some work for me in single-pitch sport climbing still, some improvements I’d like to make, and some harder routes I’d like to do before I move on.

（問）：七個繩距的部份，那就是要橫渡到Stoveleg Cracks的部分？

（答）：沒錯，就在那邊。所以我想要再回去試試那部分。我不知道我們是否很有效率的完成它，像是拖拉器材或是垂降的部份。隔天起床時我們都累壞了，當下的感覺就像「我看我們還是抱抱石就好」。我的確想進行更多像那樣的大岩壁攀登，將我在運動攀登所學的運用在場路線上。我也想找出離地約600到1,000呎的岩壁上找出5.15級別的驚人路線。但我認為在單繩劇的運動攀登領域裡還有未完工作，必須要進行些修正，也有些路線需要在踏出下一步之前克服。

But 30 years old, the clock’s ticking…

I might be ready, you know…

（問）：30歲了，時間可是不等人。

（答）：我已經有心理準備了。

Settling down. You’ve got a house now, and a dog…

I might be ready, actually, but there’s a few projects that hopefully this fall I can climb. And I love putting up routes, much more than to repeat another route. It’s such a complete process—to see something, dream it might be possible, and then you have to really work your ass off to make it even possible to attempt it.

（問）：說到穩定下來，你現在有了房子跟一條狗...

（答）：事實上我也許已經要穩下來，但我仍希望這秋天能完成幾個計畫。我喜歡設計新路線勝於重複攀爬前人的路線。看見它、想像著如何將它付諸行動，然後用盡全力去完成--這是一個完整的過程。

So, back to an earlier point. Your new home base—this is the next step for you in order to climb harder?

Yeah, for sure. Some of the strongest climbers now are from Spain, and where we’re living is really what southern France was in the mid or early 1990s, you know? Right now, there’s literally 15 5.15s within an hour and a half of each other. So it’s really kind of a special moment in Spain.

（問）：如同先前提到的，建立基地（家）是你嘗試難度更高的攀爬的下一步？

（答）：是的。部分最好的攀岩者來自於西班牙，而我們的住所就像90年代中早期的南法一樣。在一小時車程內有15條5.15以上的路線，而每條路線間的距離約莫是半小時。現在的西班牙的確有著特別的氛圍。

And you’re saying that you can’t reach a new level if you’re always globetrotting.

I went to China last year, to Yangshuo, and I bolted four amazing routes, really great projects. But we were there for three weeks, and there’s just no time to do any of them. Like I was saying, to put your life on hold and go camp out in the Mojave Desert is stressful for your relationships. It’s pretty amazing that Daila went with me, like, five times to Clark Mountain. She looks around, and she’s like, “I don’t get it, there’s a million crags in Spain....”

It’s totally worth it to find a route like that, but in the game of finding harder climbs, it’s not like you can just whip ’em out every week. Or every year. It takes consolidation—that’s the dirty work.

（問）：你說如果你不停的旅行世界各地，你將無法進步？

（答）：我去年到了中國的陽朔，並在那裡設計了四條絕妙的路線。我們花了三星期在陽朔，但卻沒有時間完成其中任何一條。如同我說的，拋開手邊的人生計畫然後到Mojave 沙漠裡野營對（感情）關係有很大的傷害。Daila出人意料的願意伴我同行，像是先前去Clark山脈5次。她看了看四周，臉上露出的表情像是在說：「我不懂，明明西班牙就有爬不完的岩縫...」

能夠找出條像樣的路線當然很好，但就尋找更難的攀登路線而言，不是每星期，甚至每年，都能開發出新路線，這需要沈澱，而這就是最麻煩的部份。

So you’re kind of pushing the numbers now.

Yeah, yeah, it’s interesting. People asked why I started grading things again. I felt like, yeah, look, this is not the most important thing, but at the same time, to just not pay any attention to that is a little blind, too, you know? But for me, it’s always going to be mostly about finding cool routes—that’s the motivation to try something hard.

（問）：你正將攀登難度推向新的境界。

（答）：沒錯，這很有趣。人們總是對我為何重新將攀登系統分級感到好奇。這並不是最重要的，但若要無視這些卻未免顯得盲目。對我來說，首要目標是找出有趣的路線--這就是嘗試更難路線的動機。

How do you see yourself staying involved when you’re no longer a professional athlete?

Well, outside of climbing, seeing how professional athletes evolve through life, you have guys like Tony Hawk that stayed very relevant, stayed very in tune with everything. Then you have guys like Mike Tyson, who kind of crashed and burned...

（問）：你現在不是職業運動員，你如何將自己與攀岩保持聯結？

（答）：在不攀岩的時候，可以看看職業運動員如何過生活。有像Tony Hawk這樣將生活跟職業銜接無瑕的例子，但也有像Mike Tyson這樣身敗名裂的例子。

Which direction do you see yourself going?

[Laughs.] Hopefully not toward crash and burn. I was just talking about this with Boone [Speed] this morning. Boone is a great example—he’s staying connected to the industry through design and photography.

（問）：你覺得你的未來方向是？

（答）：（笑）當然不是身敗名裂。我今早才跟Boone談過這問題，他就是個榜樣，透過設計跟攝影跟整個圈子保持連結。

So how would you work it?

Well, I’m actually really motivated on shoe design right now. I’m going to Evolv tomorrow. I’ve also worked with a kid’s climbing camp called Yo Base Camp—one of my best friends Andy Puhvel and his wife, Lisa, just a mom and pop company—doing a scholarship fund for them called the Sharma Fund. I had a lot of support from my local climbing community, and without that kind of support, I know I wouldn’t be here today.

（問）：你想如何進行？

（答）：我現在想要進行鞋款設計。明天我會去Evolv公司，我也跟Yo Base Camp這樣的兒童攀岩營隊合作。這營隊是我好友Andy Puhvel跟Lisa兩夫婦設立的，很簡單的團隊，運作著「Sharma 基金」。我從本地的攀岩社群得到很多助力，沒有他們的幫助就沒有今天的我。

But for now, still an athlete...

I’m super-psyched to keep pushing it as long as I can, but I think I’ve tried to be aware that there’s gonna be a time when I’m not the best climber. What I felt, just traveling all the time—you’re having these great experiences, meeting great people, having these connections, but you never really go anywhere with those connections. My family is the friends that I have, because I don’t have any brothers or sisters. My mom passed away, and I’ve never been super-close with my other relatives. I wanted to start to build something so that in 10 years, when I’m really washed up and over the hill, and…

（問）：但你現在依然身為運動員...

（答）：我心態方面完全調適好，要盡我所能走下去，但我也了解到也許某天我不會是最佳攀岩者。我在這些旅行中體會到，我體驗了很多，認識許多朋友、團體，但這些都是帶不走的。我的朋友們等同我的家人，因為我並沒有兄弟姊妹。我的母親已經過世，而我向來跟父親不親近。（後略）

No more slideshows…

That’s just kind of a sad image. So being in Spain is really trying to find a balance. Continuing my climbing, but also trying to develop something more that’s, like, a life. I mean, even now I feel like a lot of the pressure’s off. There’s a new, younger generation to push new standards. More of the pressure is on them now. I’m still enjoying it, so why not? I’m still good, I’m still psyched, but I don’t want to approach things from the perspective of trying to hang on to something. I feel really happy that I have a house and a girl to go back to.

（問）：訪問最後，還有什麼想說的呢？

（答）：這講來也許有點感傷。待在西班牙是為了找尋平衡，持續我的攀岩事業，但我也同時試著發展其他像是如何過生活的層面。我的意思是，我現在覺得壓力稍減，因為有新的、年輕的世代崛起，創造新的里程碑，他們應該會負擔比較多的責任。而我也還樂在其中，為什麼不呢？我還沒衰退，心態方面也保持的很好，但我不會抱持汲汲營營的態度而進行任何工作，我很高興我還有個家跟女友可以依靠。